Joseph Kahn, who brought his battle rap satire “Bodied” to the Toronto Film Festival, discussed working with Taylor Swift and people’s obsession with “celebrity warfare,” at the Variety Studio Presented by AT&T on Saturday.

“The biggest insult anyone throws at her is that she’s manipulative,” he said about the “Look What You Made Me Do” singer. “What does that mean? As an artist, because you know what clothes you want to wear, you know what edits you want to make, you know what the set-ups are, you know what the theme of every idea is, you know what your lyrics are. Is that manipulative or is that just being smart?”