‘Game of Thrones’ After the ‘Battle of the Bastards’: Jon Snow Should Never Rule

'Game of Thrones' Jon Snow's Revelation:
Courtesy HBO

This post discusses “Battle of the Bastards,” episode 9 of season 6 of “Game of Thrones.” Check out Variety’s recap of the episode

I haven’t read up on all of the “Game of Thrones” fan theories out there — it might be the one Internet rabbit hole I haven’t fallen down. So I don’t know what fans are positing as the endgame of the story, and please, don’t tell me. Really, don’t tweet at me about the prediction you’re absolutely sure is going to come true — I’d rather be surprised by what transpires as the series launches into its home stretch. I’ve read the first three books in the “Song of Ice and Fire” saga, but I’m glad that the show has gone past George R.R. Martin’s tomes, because whether we’ve read the books or not, at this point, the entire audience is getting surprised left and right. 

At least, it should be. The biggest problem with the spectacle of the “Battle of the Bastards” is that it all more or less went the way I expected it to. (Except Wun Wun died. RIP Wun Wun, you were done done too soon.)

A lot of the predictability of the episode can be laid at the feet of Jon Snow — who is handsome, brave, and not the sharpest sword in the weapons locker. Let me be frank: Jon Snow should never rule anything, ever. If him sitting atop the Iron Throne and ruling Westeros is a fan theory or any kind of endgame scenario, may I submit my reaction to that: Nope. 

Now, I don’t despise Jon Snow as I may despise a certain orange-hued loudmouth on the American political scene. I actually think he means well, and he has a good heart. And yet, I have good reason to launch the hashtag #NeverSnow.

Of course, I admired Miguel Sapochnik’s direction of the battle for Winterfell (though one of my takeaways was, serving as a Ye Olden Knight’s horse was not even a little bit fun. The Bastard’s Battle was a terrible day for horseflesh). But I couldn’t truly enjoy it to its fullest extent. All that blood was shed because Jon did exactly what Sansa warned him against — he fell into a trap set by Ramsay. Yes, the action was exciting and terrifying and gave you a great sense of what it was like to be inside a grinding, seemingly endless battle.

And yet, throughout the whole thing, in my mind, I was yelling at Jon. The more printable version of my rant goes something like this: “You nitwit, before the battle, you told Ramsay that the two of you could settle this without needlessly killing many men — but thanks to your rashness, that’s exactly what transpired! You knew that it was likely that Rickon would die, and that the awful Ramsay would bait you in some horrible, sadistic way. And yet you fell for it. Why literally pile hundreds, if not thousands, of dead bodies on top of Rickon’s corpse for no reason? If the plan was to let Ramsay’s army come to you, let Ramsay’s army come to you! Don’t diverge from the plan that would save lives simply because he got to you and you’re angry!”

Sansa warned Jon, who knew of Ramsay’s sick reputation anyway, and yet he made the worst possible decisions regardless of all of that. The Ned Stark is strong in this one. As Laura Prudom noted in Variety’s recap of the episode, “Despite Sansa’s warnings that Ramsay wouldn’t play by the rules of any game Jon might be familiar with, our noble bastard has the same shortcomings as Ned Stark; he fights with honor against opponents who are all too willing to use that predictable morality against him.” Yep.

The predictability of Jon falling for the smirking Ramsay’s tricks marred the episode; it doesn’t help that we knew why Jon reacted that way. His actions did not seem necessary; they were selfish and resulted in the sacrifice of lives that his forces could ill afford to lose. A leader needs to see the big picture and act accordingly, and his failure to act in a cool, intelligent way in that battle means he’s clearly not ready for the bigtime, leadership-wise. He’s not ready to play a role on the national stage, that’s for sure. 

I hoped against hope that Jon had kept some men in reserve. Wouldn’t it have been incredibly clever of him to appear to fall for Ramsay’s trick, but then have a group of soldiers lying in wait for the Bolton forces, ready to strike at a key moment?

It was a bit of a letdown that Sansa swooped in and saved the day via Littlefinger’s army, another move that went exactly as expected. None of us believed that note she sent off on a raven was a memo to her dressmaker about what frocks to whip up. Littlefinger’s forces arrived in the nick of time, but there was nothing surprising and thus triumphant about that. (As my husband dryly noted, “Here comes Gandalf and his army, right on time.”)

The fact that it was so mechanically set up and so widely expected drained the moment of much of its impact. This is also a narrative that pulls out the deus ex machina a fair bit — Sansa saving the day this week is not unlike Daenerys arriving in Meereen last week, with her dragons ex machina, if you will.

I’ve enjoyed this season (which I’ve written about here, herehere and here), in part because it’s brought together so many memorable “Thrones” folks in scenes that amused me, thrilled me or just showed how good the writers can be at creating resonant and incisive character moments. Now that we have so much investment in a number of the characters, to see them make tough decisions, meet up with each other again and come together in new combinations is fascinating at best and highly watchable in otherwise variable episodes.

I would give most of my gold to see Pod and Bronn star in a road-trip buddy comedy; any time Brienne shares the screen with anyone (especially Jaime) it’s pure gold; and if you have not sworn allegiance to the tiny but ferocious Lady Mormont, what are you even doing with your life? Her resting angryface in Sunday’s episode is classic Lady Mormont:

Lady Mormont Game of Thrones

It’s very obvious by this point that the narrative has made a huge overall turn from “Game of Thrones’” early seasons, and now the female characters and their points of view are getting a lot more screen time. The women are basically over it. They are often more fierce, more ruthless and more committed to their agendas than the men, which reflects their experiences of being ground under the bootheels of various patriarchal cultures.

Yara Greyjoy struck a canny deal with Dany (and worked some delicious flirtation into the negotiation — well played, Yara). But what kind of leader will Yara be when no one in her kingdom will be able to steal and reave anymore? It’s the basis of their economy, after all. And is Dany necessarily a good potential (and actual) ruler, given that her idea of governing consists of the sentence, “I have dragons, your argument is invalid.”

I hope that “Game of Thrones” doesn’t go the route of patronizing women by positing them as the generally more intelligent and rational gender. Neither gender has a monopoly on stupidity or wisdom. Perhaps the ultimate message is that no one person holds the key to good governing — Dany only works as a ruler with Tyrion by her side, Jon would have been better off taking Sansa more seriously, Yara is a brave leader but she might do well to keep the newly humbled Theon by her side, etc. As Laura Prudom noted, the Stark siblings helped each other; each one took on the task best suited to him or her: “Sansa’s presence prevented Jon from surrendering his own humanity in his quest for vengeance against Ramsay, and in return, he was able to give her the opportunity to find some semblance of closure by taking back her agency and determining Ramsay’s fate.” 

I hope all the potential leaders of both genders remain flawed, complicated and interestingly contradictory. Ramsay wasn’t a good character because he was boringly, predictably smug and I’m glad he’s dead. The citizens of Westeros should realize that the new king in the North, or the Stark/Snow in the North, or the Bastard of Winterfell or whatever they’re going to call him, should probably just stay inside that castle, listen to his sister, and more or less leave it at that.  

That probably won’t happen, but I do know one thing: Jon Snow should not sit on the Iron Throne. Westeros could use some fresh blood in Kings Landing: I’m all for Lady Mormont taking the highest office in the land. The people of Westeros could do worse.

Check out Variety’s coverage of “Game of Thrones.”

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  1. Ghost says:

    Also, when you say Jon should of had men in reserve waiting…when you are as badly outnumbered as they were that’s not really a luxury that can be afforded

  2. Ghost says:

    Jon should listen to Sansa more? Lol maybe Sansa should try telling the battle commander/cousin/man trying to protect her about the secret army she has at her disposal. Jon wouldn’t have attacked at all if he knew about the Knights of the Vale possibly joining.

  3. hack says:

    I totally agree with you on that part that jon did wrong in charging rashly.but when you love your little brother you would try your hardest to save him even there is a slightest of chance.rickon ran straight line which was the reason for his easy doom.but if you think that jon should sacrifice his brotger easily than why should he even fight? there is no reason to him to fight just to take some material place like winterfell.it does not have anny meaning to him.it was sansa who wanted that.now think it this way if survival is the only thing matters to sansa then she is already free.she should go to the free cities and love her life. but no.she want use jon for her gain.it is true than sansa done smartly using jon as a pawn and sacrificing rickon it proves that how unkind she is.do you really think people would follow someone who sacrifice even her brother like it is no big deal.sansa announced rickon dead without even trying to save hI’m and far early than the battle.it was like she didn’t care even rickon remain live or dead.how would she feel if she was a hostage to ramsey and her brothers sacrifice her like that.now there is many tactician commented here.but let’s see sansa didn’t even say a single word about vale army to jon no matter how much chance she got and how much jon said..now do you think jon is the only person can lead a army or are thinking that only one person lead army into fight.there is many general that are responsible to take charge if something happent to the primary general. if jon can’t trust that than how can he fight…in vale army there certainly has capable fighter that can take control of their army even jon was dead by doing whatever she wanted to do.so jon acting rashly can’t doom all the army so easily.jon was the supreme commander true but he was not the only one.so sansa should have told him that…and true jon should have think properly before act to save rickon.and I am sure if rickon was saved you would not even ques that decesion but unlike dany starks don’t get such luck of miracle in every single mistake they do.you are supporting sansa for her only victory and only one decision of this battle while jon has proved his importance in leading people to fight.even if jon died do you realy think sansa could lead people to fight.arya may be.but sansa never.sansa does not even no anything about leading army.only thing she know is how to lie better and sacrifice other for her gain.you forgot that how immature was sansa asking for jofferyss dick.and are saying sansa didn’t do any mistakes??????? why did sansa deny when baelish was blamed for her aunts death? what did she gain there by her lying? she could have had baelish killed and can control sweet robin by marrying him.but no.she thought baelish would be useful.and then what.she went to marry ramsey willingly because of baelish counsel.what did she thought of gaining by doing that.I think she willingly ent to marry ramsey.and then cried like a person who didn’t got she want.so how can her so many mistakes are less important than jons one mistake???? and I truly believe that with the experience of betreyal and battle jon would try different approach in this war.but the director thought of making him mistake and showing off people how intelligent sansa has become and how cool she is.who was the loser in every case before that episode.

  4. Don says:

    This is absolutely ridiculous!!
    What you seem to be overlooking (which is a big thing to miss I’ll admit) is that Jon didn’t expect, nor was he prepared for Rickons death!!
    Yes, Sansa knew Ramsay. She knew just how sadistic he was, knew of his sick and twisted “games” he loved to play.
    So in her mind, it was very obvious to her that Rickon was doomed to die at the hands of Ramsay. She knew it would happen, she had already compartmentalized it! And, she also knew that her help (Knights of the Vale) would show up towards the end of the battle, and finish off the Bolton forces.
    Jon did Not expect nor did he know that help would arrive. He didn’t expect to see Ramsay use Rickon as bait. Even if Jon suspected Rickon would die, he had no idea how he would handle such a thing!
    You can say “yea he watched him die but he should have kept to his battle plans”
    BTW, he also had no clue about the Vale Knights. And even if Jon stuck to the plan, thousands would have died anyway!! This review/blog is merely yet another anti-Snow message…or moreover a pro-Sansa rant in disguise lol

  5. MDE427 says:

    This drab was some poorly written and imagined shite. Very uninformed opinion about a character with more depth and interest in a made up world than this writer could ever even dream to come close to in their actual, real world life.

    Dumbest thing I have seen printed about Game of Thrones is “Jon Snow Should Never Rule”

  6. Ebbin says:

    I think the writers have decided to make Jon Snow look stupid in this particular season alone.

    In past seasons Jon is shown to be an able leader and good fighter. A few examples:

    i) He leads an attack on craster’s keep to kill the mutineers or the wildlings would have found out that the night’s watch didn’t have a 1000 men as Jon told them.
    ii) When Allister Thorne asks Jon about his opinion on what should be done about the wildlings who raided the nearby villages, Jon says that they should’nt go after them as that is what the wildlings would want
    iii) He goes to kill Mance Raider knowing that a learderless wilding army would go back to fighting each other
    iv) He brings wildlings south of the wall knowing that if he doesnt they will become part of night king’s army. He does this knowing that this would divide the Night’s watch but was important for their long term survival.

    As a fighter Jon is shown to be learning from each combat.
    Karl Tanner tells Jon he fights with honor and it would get him killed and spits him in the face and uses this distraction to his advantage. In a later episode Jon uses this trick when he fights Styr Magnar of Thenn by spitting blood on his face before killing him with a hammer.

    So what I don’t understand is the writers’ decision to make him look like a complete idiot in one episode , when over the course of a few seasons they’ve built him up as a great leader.
    I can only think that they wanted to make Sansa look smart and ready to play the game of thrones.

  7. aferro1 says:

    Both Ramsay and Snow showed that they aren’t ready to rule a kingdom. Then again Sansa isn’t either. Keep in mind Snow is probably supposed to be around 23. The character was 17 when it began plus every year for every season. So he is young but has accomplished a lot. He made a mistake by seeing his sister as guess what his sister! He didn’t take her seriously and he admitted it. His family is a sore subject and one he strives to honor and prove himself to time and again. He lost his head a bit because he loved his brother. It shows he still has a heart and that he is still in many senses a kid. The question remains can he learn from his mistake? I believe he can. But even if he doesn’t he is better than the alternatives. Sansa does not inspire people to fight for her case in point not one Northern House even thought of her. Dany quite literally ruled Mereen for all of a minute none of which was good. She conquers and leads by intimidation, godly prowess and an annoying sense of entitlement. And Cersei quite literally blew up her own people. Jon may have made a huge blunder at the Battle of the Bastards but that blunder was the practice needed for the night King just like Mereen was practice for Dany. Both ended badly and were swept under the rug. At least with Jon he will stand with his men and fight along side them. Had he not gotten emotional his plan could have been amazing. But really can you blame a guy who lost all faith in himself after being stabbed by his rival and young mentoree, returned from the dead only to be told to buck up and keep on fighting to save his brother, and then told hey Rickon is pretty much dead by his sister who withheld critical information that could have really been useful? I’m gonna give that 23 year old some leeway on that and wait to see his actions at King of the North. I am crossing my fingers that he gives Sansa a bitching’ danger and asks her to be his hand to the king because let’s be honest a pin just isn’t practical in the North.

  8. So, Jon Snow’s rushing to save his brother makes him unfit to rule? So how should he have reacted?
    Let’s examine the situation

    Sansa is a lying manipulator, she could have told him more than just “Don’t do what he wants you to do” but she didn’t. She lied to him twice! First when she tells him of Riverrun and then she lied about not knowing if there were more troops to be had.

    To Sansa this wasn’t about saving Rickon, it was solely about revenge for her rape and torture. Sansa, not Jon, Sansa’s actions led to the deaths of thousands.

    Had she told Jon and they waited for the Vale to come, or at least a response, they could have prepared better, but Jon had to fight with the forces he had at hand. Jon gave no orders to charge, his men followed him because they trust him, and will follow him.

    Sansa is playing the game of thrones, much like that douche Little Finger, while Jon, the only righteous one of the three is solely thinking of the true war to come.

    As for Jon on the throne, He doesn’t want to rule, time after time he has been thrust into the role of Leader, Lord Commander, and now King in the North. The best rulers are the reluctant ones, ones who have no thirst for power but only seek to ensure their people are safe. Besides, GRRM said from the beginning of book one, the most unlikely person would become King in the end.
    1. Jon’s a bastard when the story starts.
    2. Jon leaves for the wall, which by the way he wasn’t force to go to.
    3. Jon became Lord Commander, in the show by one vote, in the book…by a landslide.
    4. He DIED…and was brought back.
    Jon has always been the most unlikely character…we are only seeing the culmination of the pieces to the puzzle now.

    Lady Mormont might survive, but I doubt it. Your girls Sansa, Yara and Daenerys, yeah they will get killed off too. Little Finger will meet his end by Arya’s hand, and I believe when she realizes Sansa plans to betray Jon, our little assassin will kill her too.

  9. Lex says:

    I’m going with Queen in the North, Small but Mighty Mormont as Banner Lady, Brienne and Pod as Queensguard, Jon the face of the army (though he knows his sister’s giving the orders), and Littlefinger on retainer so he can help without creeping people out. Sansa’s transformation has been the most delightful part of the show, and now we have Team Awesome West in place, Team Awesome East boarding Yara’s ships: Yara and Dany vs. the Patriarchy keeping Tyrion’s arrogance in check, Missandai bringing Lady Mormont’s adorableness and Greyworm bringing Brienne’s honor to the table… and Theon as Team Mascot. We won’t be getting a Clash of Queens this season, but I can’t wait for the moment Dany and Sansa form an alliance. The Night King ain’t got nuthin’ on those two.

  10. David says:

    True and sincere people get killed rather fast in this universe. This is not a live happily ever after kind of tale.

    There is not question that Jon is a good man, like his dad. But that does not guarantee for a good leader. I would say a combination of Eddard and Tywin could make a good leader for the 7-kingdoms.

  11. There’s historical precedent for the Iron Islands with regards to their reaving-based economy in real-world viking cultures. Once they began to assimilate with the rest of Europe culturally and religiously it turned out their superior naval capabilities and worldliness made them natural traders and merchants, on both a wide and small scale. The end of traditional viking raids that came with Christianization was met with little resistance

  12. Crowbane says:

    Jon failed to “kill the boy”. The Jon “nerd rage” charge was reminiscent of his childish attempt to desert the Night’s Watch in episode one. He disgraced Mormont and Aegon’s memory with that charge. Rickon was the one Stark child Jon was least close to and yet was able to be used to provoke him so easily? Yes, the Jon on display last episode would indeed make a terrible leader. Time for Sansa to finally shed the victim stigma once and for all and take over because Jon clearly isn’t ready for the “grown folks” table.

    • Don says:

      Nerd Rage??? His brother just died!!!! Wtf would you have him do?!?!

      • Ram says:

        “Nerd Rage??? His brother just died!!!! Wtf would you have him do?!?! ”

        Be a Commander.

    • So he should have stood there and watched Rickon die?
      Sansa is clearly a Lannister-Bolton now, a manipulative woman who will use even her own family to gain what she wants. She won’t survive the game, the little assassin will see to that.

  13. David says:

    For those of you who blamed Sansa for not telling Jon about the Vale force, seriously????? Jon’s army was about half the size as Ramsey’s (both in the thousands). This isn’t really that big a gap. Yet, if not for the surprised arrival of the Vale force, Jon’s army would have been 100% annihilated.

    Face it, Ramsey was a much better tactician in comparison to Jon. Even if Jon had an army of equal size to that of Ramsey’s, he would still fall for the trap Ramsey sat for him, and rush into battle. Sansa was actually being smart for not letting Jon take total control.

    • Meg P. says:

      Yes – it is 100% Sansa’s fault that so many men died. As I stated in another reply to you: the Vale’s army is bloody massive. Estimated ~30,000 in the show and ~45,000, per GRRM.

      So, yeah. This was HER battle she begged Jon into heading up (lest we forget who wanted this battle and who DIDN’T) and is HER fault that Jon went into it with losing numbers because she kept a GIGANTIC secret from him. SMH. Do your research, people.

    • Dee says:

      True. Especially GRMM is not known for giving happy endings. Jon is not known for being a good tactician and can be too emotional for his own good.

    • Prasad says:

      You. I exactly share your thoughts. I’ve given up on educating people what a monstrous troll move Jon mad in that episode. He may have won the Wall battle against the wildlings and even saved many at Hardhome which is something to be revered of him, but running against a charge of cavalry alone leaving his entire force of warriors clueless and unorganized is just the stupidest thing I’ve ever seen. I lost all my respect for Jon as a battle commander there. He just isn’t a guy I’d be ready to follow. Heck what rages me is people mistake the sympathy for him reaching out to Rickon as a brave, courageous and “leader” quality. HAHAHAHA.

    • Jejespawn says:

      How dare you say that Ramsay is a better tactician than Jon ? Your judgemnt is based upon just one battle ? Did you forget that he held the wall against thousand wildlings with just hundred men ? What’s more, I agree that Jon made the wrong choice, but all he wanted to do was to save his brother. Ramsay is a tactician ? No he’s a psychopat… How can you command arrows shooting when you aim the opponents and your troops as well ? That is why Davos commanded not to fire. Ramsay would have sacrificed all his army just to destroy an army half size of his ? And you consider half size not a gap, but that does not justify that Sansa told nothing to Jon about the Vale. He sait her at least three times onscreen that they could not have more men, and this whore told nothing. If she had said, Jon would probably have waited for the Vale before the assault, and hundreds, even thousands of lifes would have been spared.

      • David says:

        In a siege, tactic is not as important as preparation and morale. It’s not like Jon defeated a few thousands of wildlings with a hundred men. Did you see the size of that wall?

        And righteousness and decent character aren’t relevant to one’s ability to win a war. Ramsey was bold (and stupid in a sense) for sacrificing his cavalry, but it got the job done. He had Jon’s army completely surrounded with heavy infantry. If not for Vale’s knights, Ramsey could easily kill off all of the remaining enemies without taking significant loss. Let’s say you had an army of 5000, went against an army of 2000, and lost 2500 of your own troop. It is not a great performance, but it isn’t actually that bad.

        And no, if Sansa did tell. Jon might have waited. But he would still fall for Ramsey’s little trap, and charge out like a hot-head. The more likely outcome then would be that the Knights of the Vale would also be annihilated due to Jon’s inability to lead a proper battle.

        If anything, this was a victory for Sansa, who was being smart (and a bitch) for using Jon as a decoy for luring out Ramsey’s army. But war is war, it is not about being nice and righteous.

  14. Dude Smith says:

    Way to interpret battle tactics. If anything this shows Sansa has learned very well from Little Finger and she needed to Jon to rush in to bait the trap. Ramsey’s big mistake was he sacrificed his cavalry thinking he could mop up with his infantry. Jon Snow being in the thick of it led him to this bit of hubris. If he had seen Jon deploying his troops methodically, he would have pulled his cavalry back to defend/regroup for another charge. Jon Snow’s presence in the melee attributed to his decision to win by attrition. Without Jon Snow in the thick of it, they would never had the hammer and egg effect with the Knights of the Vale and house Bolton’s phalanx. It would have been drawn out and methodical and the odds would have gone up for the Bolton’s because they outnumbered Jon’s forces 2 to 1.

    • saiz says:

      Is that seriously correct logic? what i mean is, just because “war is war and not about being nice and righteous” as you put it, that everyone needs to behave according to that status Quo. What you are all forgetting is that Jon didn’t even want to fight to begin with, nor did he want to lead. His honor and love made him fight, but this was always Sansa’s army. Thus, he was never their leader. He had the respect of the free folk, who was lead by Tormund, he had Davos, who was a right-hand man of Stannis, But she bore the name stark and it was the stark name that would rally the Northmen, Not a Snow. Even in the entire fight, Jon never gave a single order.

      Therefore, how is it that Jon sacrificed lives? They charged in on their free will! Jon took out a lot of the army before his(Sansa’s army) even made it to Jon. If anything, Sansa betrayed Jon, the free folk, and the Northmen by not revealing that she could use the knights of the Vale. Furthermore, she shows the character of a terrible leader by rescinding on the promise she made to little finger. Hence “I never want to see you again” and “I don’t want your help” , had no meaning after all. She is merely another pawn of little fingers, just like her Aunt Lysa. How can she be trusted to lead, she betrays everyone around her?

      One could also make the argument that Jon doesn’t want to be alive. Perhaps he was hoping to meet his end in an honorable way. In any case, I don’t think you can fault Jons attempt to save his brother. Look deep inside yourself, wouldn’t you want to rescue your brother? It was Sansa’s idea to return to winterfell, to fight for winterfell. And, in the end it was Sansa who betrayed them all for her own ends. Regardless of whether she knew Rickon was dead or not, her behaviour was cold. Is a leader suppose to be cold? It is definitely not the kind of leader i would respect. A cold leader may be able to “get things done” but they lack the empathy for others. A loving, warm, honorable leader is what the 7 kingdoms need. Spoiler alert* which according to the history written by GRRM, The first dragon king was an honorable, loving leader who created this wheel that danaerys’ wants to break.

      As far as this feminist movement goes, have you all forgotten that a lot of the chaos in game of thrones has derived from stupid female decisions? Cersi, Catelyn, Lysa Arron, Margery, Dorne (sand snakes), Danaerys’ and her quest to end slavery and rape which lead to the death of her husband Drogo. Without the stupid decisions of these women, there may not have even been a war to start with. Lysa Arron; Killed her husband for Little finger. Catelyn Stark; wrongly obtains the Imp, tyrion and releases Jamie lannister behind her sons back (the king in the north). Cersi, the list is endless with her; incest, murder. Her attempt to play the game was the cause of so many deaths and betrayals. her stupidity lead to the death of both her children. We all know that Sansa has been a foolish little girl, and this character trait is as evident now as it was then.

      Thus, Women have been the reason why there is a war in the first place. Now we just pat them on the back. Ridiculous! Even in the Iron islands, Yara, who had the respect of the army lost and will now be responsible for helping to unleash dragons on the 7 kingdoms. This is what happens when these women try to rule. Chaos incarnate.

      • John says:

        Woah you seems to have a bone to pick with…. Seriously? feminist movement? If you think Dany lead to the death of her husband Drogo then Jon rushing stupidly into the battlefield alone resulting in the chaotic death of his men is far worse. Please don’t say he’s heroic or something because he’s the commander and he is responsible for his men’s lives. The battlefield is no bed and roses.

        Please don’t forget how the robert’s rebellion started which started it all. Oh but you’ll probably say it’s not Rhaegar’s fault, must be Lyanna Stark’s fault. Most of all you need to see a mental doc. Really.

      • David says:

        Wow, where did that come from? The feminist movements? Let’s not make this into a male vs. female thing.

        And your logic is seriously flawed. It’s true that Jon didn’t want to be in that position. But as soon as he declared war against Ramsey, he became the LEADER of this army. What he did in the battle was a classic example of bad leadership.

  15. OrcusOfUndeath says:

    I think the article is way too harsh on Jon. Dany’s made FAR worse mistakes for example. And lets not even mention Cersei.

  16. Ryan says:

    I find it interesting that Danaerys can mistakes, but is still revered. Jon Snow is thrown into the throes of leadership reluctantly, makes some mistakes and is then vilified for his said mistakes. Coupled with that comparison, Danaerys has always had advisors walk her through her struggles, Snow has not.

  17. Mishyana says:

    To be completely honest, if the show has to become a bit predictable just so that the ‘good’ guys can spend a little time not endlessly catching it in the metaphorical (and often literal) eye, I’ll take it. Yes, Jon’s decision to rush out there was a stupid one. Yes, he fell right into the moralistic trap Ramsay knew he would and that Sansa warned him of. It doesn’t hurt that there are people who make the human decision instead of always going with the cold, statistical decision.

    tl;dr – People who are willing to be Ramsay are ALWAYS going to be able to take advantage of people who are not, unless the latter start acting like Ramsay. That is not a good takeaway.

  18. Dez-Lee says:

    Ramsey would have never attacked John and would have just gone back to the castle while nights of the vale would arrive early and boltons would notice them and lock up in the castle for forever. #jonthedragon

  19. Shashank says:

    Nope,Jon will rule in future.he was horrified by his brother’s death so that’s why he took an outrageous step and what about sansa not telling Jon about knights of the vale.she should have introduced them tad earlier.Jon threw himself into death barrage we should salute him.

    • David says:

      I disagree on the “Sansa should tell Jon” part. In the dual between Jon and Ramsey, Jon lost at every single turn. Even if the two armies match in size, I really don’t see how Jon could beat Ramsey. Ramsey may be a sadistic psychopath, but he has done a great job in terms of military tactics.

      Sansa’s surprise attack was what beat him.

      • Meg P. says:

        Okay, you’re Infosyobviously harsh underestimating the size of the Vale’s army; They are one of the few armies that have not participated in shit all, since all of the fighting (namely The War of the Five Kings) started. They have been, for all intents and purposes, untouched by war. Estimations put them about anywhere from 30,000 – 45,000 (45k is per GRRM).

        So, go ahead and calculate that BACK into your “Sansa’s surprise attack totally won everything, tho” defense and see how the numbers crunch. Spoiler alert: They don’t. If she had relayed to Jon – during any of a multitude of opportunities – that the Knights of the bloody Vale were coming, not many “military tactics” would have worked for Ramsey’s favor.

        Seriously, people. Do your homework. The Knights of the Vale are a HUGE bloody deal. They can raise men in numbers EQUAL to the ENTIRETY of the North.

      • Jejespawn says:

        Again, you’re talking about military tactics, but what do you know about it ? Ramsay was ready to sacrifice 4000, even 5000 men among his army of 6000 men. And what after ? Yes he would have won, but he also knows that since he married Sansa, the Lannisters want his head on a spike. If he had been so smart, he would have tried to spare the most of his army for future fight against the Lannisters. His father Roose warned him about this, that is not like if he had not been prevented.

  20. Gjs says:

    Dumbest fight scene ever! During the fight, Jon Snow gets buried by a 20 foot high pile of dead bodies. How stupid was that? Not since Bambi vs Godzilla . . . .

    If I were Jon, I’d have put Sansa in the dungeon with Ramsay, removed the dogs and thrown away the key. Those two clearly belong together. Forever.

    If I were Littlefinger, I’d have finished off the Snow man and his greatly diminished group of loyalists and then offered Sansa some dog meat in exchange for her run down castle. If she refused, I’d have offered the dogs some Sansa meat and then taken the castle.

    It is too convenient that Littlefinger is attracted to Sansa. It makes no sense. LF has the toughest army now. He is the type who would marry much more strategically. Sansa is not just damaged goods – she is also willing to sacrifice family members to get what she wants. She could never be trusted and will always be a liability. She has nobody behind her. If she died, nobody would go to her funeral.

  21. Reshmi Chaudhuri says:

    please dont edit my comment. Thank You!

  22. dnissan says:

    I don’t think there’ll be an iron throne at the end of the series.

  23. Reshmi Chaudhuri says:

    Dear Maureen, Jon Snow is the only selfless person and he is the perfect pattern of what a king should be. It’s not his shortcomings that he tried to rescue his little brother Rickon from Ramsay as soon as possible.Jon Snow does not know anything about his noble birth…he knows himself as a knight, a leader and does everything what a knight should do. He does not hanker after the iron throne…….does not play the game of thrones to win it. Sansa has become clever and tactful ….but basically she is selfish and little greedy also. Jon would have not done this if Rickon was not Ramsay’s hostage. Here Jon’s love for his half brother is greater than selfish Sansa’s love for her sibling. Why should a person trust Sansa who has never been a loyal daughter to her father?Jon has done nothing to make himself a king, a leader. People love him and make him their leader. Till now he does not need to be cunning like other persons claiming the throne. He is the elected leader mostly by the wildings and commons in the Night’s Watch. ‘A leader needs to see the big picture and act accordingly’ I agree with you….see how Jon could see’ the big picture’ and gathered the wildings to fight against white walkers. Jon is not at all fool but the wisest who could foresee that the worst enemy of mankind White walkers are coming and they have to be united to fight against the creatures . Without any greed for throne he fights only to protect his people and for them who asks for help……that is the quality of a great king, great leader. That’s why he is the most suitable person to be King . None but he should sit on Iron Throne.

  24. Dan Ivers says:

    I think it should be clear by now, that whoever ands up on the throne, will be a woman. This show is about powerful women, not chest-beating men. All the battles and blood are just to get us dudes to watch, but it only takes about 10 minutes to realize that the women are the ones who really run things in the GOT universe.

  25. This was a lesson for Jon Snow for future battles, Sansa would be the adviser that she had learned from littlefinger

  26. So disagree Sansa has made so many mistakes herself why not tell Jon, Littlefinger is on the way? Might have changed the plans overall. Jon is a true hero must be true to himself in battles many mistakes are made wanted to save his little brother. I dont think he even wants to rule just wants a good life is all….. he is tired …but because of his goodness and skill he has a big future ahead of him fighting the white walkers he is not a perfect hero no one in Game of Thrones is perfect all have issues and imperfections and that is wonderful.

    • David says:

      If Sansa told Jon, I really don’t think Jon would think rationally instead of blindly charging into battle. You have to admit, Jon lost big time in the fight with Ramsey.

      Jon might be one of the best fighters in the GOT universe, but he didn’t really show much leadership skills.

      • David says:

        @Saiz, yup. He won the 1 v 1 fight, which means he was definitely the better fighter. Although, I’m not sure why Ramsey shot the giant instead of Jon before the fight. That isn’t like him.

        And yes, the WAR was the Boltons vs the “free” folk, but the battle, which is the key topic here, was Jon’s army vs Ramsey’s army.

      • saiz says:

        Technically, Jon didn’t lose against Ramsay, he won their 1 v 1 fight. But the war was not Jon vs Ramsay, it was the Bolton’s vs the free folk and Northmen. It was always Sansa’s army.

  27. Tywin Lannister says:

    “Lady” Mormont is a child without any idea how the world works. Indeed, if she were not protected by Plot armor, Sansa would have put her into her place for talking to her ruling house in such a way….”62 goodmen”…jeez, Melisandre can mobilize more men than that. So sick of the kowtowing to Politically correct candidates. No, i don’t like Lyanna Mormont simply because I’m expected to :/

    PS: Big (new) Sansa/Arya Stark Fan. There goes thy argument, Feminazis.

    • mishyana says:

      That… what? What are you even arguing against? Go back to your Rush Limbaugh podcast.

      • Leslie says:

        It’s great that you think a show filled with rape, incest, midget jokes, castrations, and murder for days is politically correct! Just because this little girl isn’t being forced in to sexual slavery, doesn’t mean it’s super p.c. You don’t have to like any character, this was an article written by one person, settle down.

      • Zhang Jingwen says:

        He’s saying that just because they made a strong female character, doesn’t mean he has to like them like feminists demand. Can you read English? Or are you just illiterate?

  28. Jon Snow says:

    Sansa’s warning to Jon was “don’t do what he want’s you to do.” What kind of advice is that? Do you really think that Jon is a bad leader because he didn’t listen to that? Also he’s very much like Ned. Ned died for honor and doing the right think. Doing the right thing gets you into trouble in this saga. How could he just right of Rickon? He couldn’t. Also Sansa really dropped the ball. She was on the war council and was asked what she thought Jon should do about not having enough men. She new about Littlefinger and had written him for help….what does she say? Nothing.

    Talk about Jon being a bad leader all you want but it’s BS. He saved the Wildlings when no one else would. He made the right call. The tough call.

    He probably won’t rule. It’ll probably be revealed he’s part Targaryen and part Stark and maybe there will be some joint rule with him and Danny and they will rule all the lands. But there is one person to lead the fight against the white walkers and that’s Jon. He’s the real leader that will save the seven kingdoms and he probably won’t get much credit for it, and he doesn’t want it either. That’s why he’s the leader that they need.

  29. stark says:

    “The citizens of Westeros should realize that the new king in the North, or the Stark/Snow in the North, or the Bastard of Winterfell or whatever they’re going to call him, should probably just stay inside that castle, listen to his sister, and more or less leave it at that” lol..
    Now this review is nothing but a one more rabbit hole which I have fell down..

  30. Kim Snow says:

    Ah, you must be one of the people who thinks our current politicians are great. Jon Snow is fictional, of course, but if our leaders had the heart of Jon Snow, the world would be a better place. He does not want to be a leader, he does not want to sit on the Iron Throne – and that is the best thing that could happen. All the people who want to rule or want to be politicians are usually scumbags who are only after power and eventually ruin everything. Just look at our nice, real world politicians.

    • higgsbosoff says:

      You need a balance between the two things though. Because as seen here, good heart doesn’t do any good if it gets you defeated by Ramsay Bolton. Or rescued by Littlefinger, for that matter. Had Jon been good AND smart about it, he would have held a better position and wouldn’t now be in such a deep debt to Petyr Baelish, another machiavellian, ruthless politician if there ever was one.

      • saiz says:

        Again, it is Sansa that is in debt to the knights of the vale, not Jon. He is not a Stark, he is a Snow.
        Furthermore, it is not petr baelish’s army, it is Robin Arryns armyand i could see him (Robin) wanting to marry Sansa in return for his help just as she was meant to be wed to him before, according to Lysa.

        So please remember, Jon was Sansa’s arm and sword, nothing more. He was not the leader. Her treatment of Jon was evidence of their lack of sibling love she seems to have for all of her brothers and sisters. Which is all she has showed since season 1.

      • Jejespawn says:

        Well, Jon has no debt to LF, but Sansa has one. Just curious to know how she’s gonna pay it…

  31. Gabriel says:

    On the contrary, I think battle of the bastards is a testament of Jon’s leadership. Jon inspires loyalty n confidence – consider Tormund, who not so long ago wanted Jon dead, and Davos who on their first encounter, ordered Jon to knee before Stannis! Both men now are willing to die for him! That was his baby brother! Yes he made a mistake, but the trick should be to survive yoyr mistake, then it becomes experience.

  32. E Moon says:

    You are literally the worst television reviewer ever. I remember back when Game of Thrones was in its second season and I was reading your week-by-week reviews, and in one of them, you STRAIGHT UP ANNOUNCED THAT ROBB STARK DIED IN BOOK THREE WHEN US VIEWERS WHO HAD NOT YET READ THE BOOKS WERE STILL WATCHING SEASON 2. Granted, this was before GOT completely blew up with popularity, but you didn’t even post a “spoiler alert” in that review saying that it contained a HUGE giveaway for the books. It was that review that made me immediately start reading Martin’s saga so that your future reviews wouldn’t spoil any other plot points for me (not to mention that you’re reviews are often weirdly negative and sarcastic in an attempt to be funny which rarely succeeds). And now, you just compared one of the most beloved GOT characters whose deepest beliefs are honor, trust, and loyalty, Jon Snow, to presumptive GOP nominee, Donald Trump? Are you serious? If anything, Joffrey was more like Trump. Don’t diss the Unkillable, man.

    Stumbled across your review while reading “Forgiving a Rapist? ‘Game of Thrones’ and ‘Orange Is the New Black’ Weigh In,” but next time I see your name at the top of an article, I won’t be reading past the byline.

    • Dave says:

      As much as I hate Trump, you under-estimated him big time. He is a disrespectful dishonest loud mouth, but he is a smart one. He knows exactly how to play the election game.

  33. Amparo says:

    Sansa created the issue by not telling Jon what she tried to set up. Jon is developing into a greater leader each battle. Sansa we are seeing plays like a Lannister now as she was with them for so long. She wants to rule Winterfell and never cared for Jon. I think when Jon learns who he really is… the true leader will emerge. Sansa will go out like a Lannister, paying some debt to Littlefinger even if, like the last deal, requires her to bed a homocidal rapist… so now she is like Cerci. It is amazing the closer to home Sansa is, the more we see her foster family coming out in her… anger and revenge is her strength? Wow nothing like her Stark side… but Jon is. Will it cost Jon his life again as he acts in the best way based on misinformation given to him by his sister. Come on your over here saying Jon didn’t take Sansa seriously… she lied and with held game changing information. She is playing the game of thrones herself. She will find out like Arya that you may not want what you seek.

  34. Sa Set says:

    Worst episode in this season so far. Bad written and boring. A good staged battle doesn’t make a good episode. Sad, waste of opportunity.

  35. Carrie says:

    Jon Snow is young and still learning. Same could be said for his experience with Ygritte. Sometimes you only gain wisdom from experience. He can still learn to rule and make better judgments, as long as he survives.

    • Brandon says:

      I’m going to have to disagree with the author’s conclusions. Jon Snow did what he thought he had to because he believed the 3,000 men he had at his command was all he had to play with. Sansa had multiple opportunities to tell Jon Snow to wait for the reinforcements coming from the Veil. But for some reason she decided to keep that information from the commanding officer of all forces in the field. Why?

      While Jon Snow let his emotions get the best of him (proving he’s still a human being), the blame for all of those deaths mainly falls on Sansa. Had she told him there were well-trained and well-armed forces coming to join Jon’s army, the strategy would have been far different and fewer men would have died.

  36. Robin says:

    Stupid article. Jon shouldn’t rule? How about you should never write.

  37. MJ says:

    Sansa lied and cost a lot of lives in the proces
    She raised all of that hell about Jon not seeking her advice and then didn’t tell him the truth about the Vale. She is not a hero and I hope a dragon eats her.

    • JRH says:

      Sansa lived with a manipulator, evil game player ( Ramsey) she bargain with a master manipulator (Littlefinger) she has had to learn to survive. In the presence of Joffrey, she learned how to hide her emotions. She told Jon he had to out think Ramsey. But he did not understand how. Sansa lived his cruelty. Hard to explain ones pain to another. By holding Littlefinger men back, till the end after Ramsey played his last card then she not only out smarted Ramsey she surprised him. Sometimes you can show people, better than you can tell them. War always has casualties.

  38. Rafael Castro says:

    Well, jon did fall for the trap, but common, it wasnt a regular trap, he witnessed in the most horrifying way one of his young brothers die, nobody could ever keep cold head against that, and lets not forget that when ramsay says to jon the day previous to the battle that if he doesnt kneel he would let his brother died, his face is of a mam considering that idea, when all of the sudden sansa says: you are going to die tomorrow ramsay bolton. So, who fell first on the trap? Was her, if sansa would have been 100% honest to jon, he would have waited, but no, so he did what he thought was the right thing to do with what he had, thats what a leader do, your complete article just demonstrate to me, that you didnt get very much the narrative in this episode. Cheers.

    • scott says:

      Was it honorable for Jon to sacrifice the lives of many of his men, if not all since he didn’t know the vale was coming to bail him out, by foregoing the plan to let Ramsay’s superior numbers come to them all for the life of his brother? I understand its a hard choice, but he has had to make MANY hard choices up to this point. The problem I had is the writer’s essentially reset much of the character development of many key players to create a ‘cool’ yet utterly predictable battle scene which we have seen over and over again (as the article points out “here comes Gandalf and his army”). The problem with GoT is that it has passed up GRRM’s story, so everything that has been interesting and unconventional about GoT story lines has devolved into boring run of the mill TV writing and complacency. Sure it’s still got its brutality, but it doesn’t have the intrigue that it once had. Its rehashed visuals and regurgitated plot points from most throwaway medieval/fantasy television concepts.

      They had an incredible chance to show how Jon Snow growing into a man by making tough decisions as a leader. Why should any of his remaining men follow him when he essentially said ‘I will sacrifice all of you who followed me when no one else would, all for my brother, who wouldn’t survive anyway if we lose the battle.’ Maybe dying and being brought back to life reset his brain to season one.

      I really wanted to enjoy the episode, and it started out excellent with the Dragons torching the slavers. Sure I totally expected the beginning of the episode to go as it did when Dany returned at the end of the previous episode with her dragon flying around in the background. But that scene had been building since she first received the dragon eggs early in the series. That scene was a payoff that had been long building, even if it was fairly predictable.

      I think the writers are lost without the GRRM’s narrative to guide them and I think they are covering that up with epic yet cliched played out tropes of medieval/fantasy type scenarios and because people are so invested in the show at this point they will all overlook this because they can’t bear to accept that something they loved has become something they have to profess to love and grasp at anything that resembles why they loved it in the first place.
      It’s like people who said Revenge of the Sith was great when it came out, because they couldn’t bear to accept that something they had loved turned sour. That goes double for the Force Awakens, I think in 3 years time people will be say ‘yeah it really was just a greatest hits/remake of the OT, with different actors’. Yes I know Star Wars is not GoT, my point is that people in society these days have a harder time than ever accepting change and developing as people and being able to accept things they loved in the past must grow and change. Its akin to the stages of dealing with death; Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression and Acceptance. Lately GoT is slowly flirting with stepping over the line into cliched predictable tropes of TV storytelling. Don’t get me wrong the episode was entertaining, but there are a few too many extended moments that are yawn worthy because the writers are showing their hand and the events are predictable. Are they well produced and do they have a realistic grit to them? Absolutely! But have we seen this storytelling before? Absolutely!

      Now to curb the hate that this long post will likely receive, the problems that are manifesting do not doom the arc of the show and there is so much history ( 6 seasons after all) and heft invested in the show and how it has played out. The worry at this point, as is with most shows that create and sustain the excellent standard of storytelling and viewer investment that GoT has done up to this point, is will it unravel at the end because of the incredible stage that has been set that they cannot deliver a satisfying end to the series (I know we aren’t quite there, but it is looming). Any show has its high points contrast with its lesser moments. What some people are noticing and accepting to some degree is that there are signs that the some story and character development elements are compromised due to what appears to be the show makers taking their eye off the ball and ignoring the nuance of the series in order to tie up story arcs.

      This episode was a bit of a stumble for me towards the end in that I was taken out of the atmosphere of the story by character decisions that felt like pushing the plot forward as opposed to feeling the weight behind the scenes and character motivations. This episode wasn’t terrible by any means and I wasn’t upset by it. I am just upset by people’s initial reactions that say this was the most epic episode yet. It had epic scope and yes Ramsay’s end was satisfying, but the episode didn’t grip me the way other episodes have (the Red Wedding or the Mountain vs Red Viper). My disappointment comes from a common occurrence of fans crowning an episode as the best ever, when in actuality it was decent enough, but nowhere near the best in the entire series. This happens often and perfectly encapsulates a kind of Denial that certain elements of the story were not executed or written as well as the could have been to really capture the essence of the storytelling that we have come accustomed to expect (emotionally gripping). I think people are afraid to say “this episode didn’t live up to my expectation of what the show has produced before in the penultimate episode. It had elements of it, but some moments were fairly hollow. Overall not a bad episode, entertaining battles, but nothing that really gripped me in the moment.” Its perfectly fine for a penultimate episode to be ok with some good battle porn. Besides I prefer a sort of episode like this if the season finale is able to really twist a knife.

  39. Julian Duran says:

    Can’t blame Jon entirely. His nature is his nature, honorable. He did ask Sansa for her advice though, and Sansa decided to say nothing about the raven sent to Littlefinger. Had he known that, his followers would probably still be alive. Pretty harsh Sansa, pretty harsh.

    • saiz says:

      you, like so many others have come to a conclusion that is not true. Jon didn’t sacrifice the lives of his men because not once did he order the army to do anything. Hence, They acted on their free will. If anything, Davos, who commanded the army to attack, sacrificed the lives of so many, for Jon.

      Jon acted alone, and being Sansa’s sword, and a loving brother, did so without ordering anyone to follow him. The lives of those men are lost by Sansa since Davos only acted because the Boltons army had attacked. Had Jon known about the vale, I don’t think that would have stopped him from charging in for his brother. Essentially, i don’t think any of this affects jons decisions. He merely wanted to save his brother. It was the only reason why he went to war in the first place.

      Without Jon, Sansa would have only had the knights of the vale, who would have lost to the Boltons easily. Sansa knew this and she used her brother to get her revenge, nothing more. So as far as loyalty and inspiration goes, it was jon who rallied the free folk, Davos who rallied the northmen, and Sansa who enlisted the Vale. Sansa received no loyalty, and now she is being used by litlle finger. Definitely not the kind of leader needed for the north (one that cvan be manipulated by Little finger).

  40. steve says:

    Oh look another feminist article, this time disguised as a TV review. I have to hand it to you guys on that regard. You’re good. Very good.

  41. Ignatius_Reilly says:

    I loved every bit of the action and most of the bits and pieces that came together in this episode. For all of Tyrion’s wisdom (a la Barristan Selmy) in crafting and alternate approach, seeing Sansa come full circle was splendid.

    After her trip with Littlefinger and lying to save his ass when he was put on trial for Lysa’s murder, we all hoped she’d be able to manipulate Ramsey when it came to that. However, we all know how that turned out, it took her a little longer and she had help along the way to a position where she could finally put everything she learned into practice: She was honestly glad and mostly relieved when she met Jon but when it came down to focusing on taking back Winterfell, she was compeltely unemotional about planning it.

    A couple of episodes ago, she apologized to Jon for being terrible to him when they were kids, how far did she have to come to realize that Rickon, a beloved pure-blood little brother, was dead either way and even try to warn Jon about it? Understanding that the former Lord Commander would fall for whatever trap Ramsey was certain to set and would sacrifice however many men he was given, she decided to play them both, her older half-brother and her estranged husband, trusting only herself to move all the pieces (Baelish, Jon, Ramsey, etc) on the board.

    That’s my take on it anyways, deeply enjoyed this episode.

    • Randall says:

      Your comment is the most accurate synopses. Why people don’t get it is beyond me.

      The answer to the question why Sansa didn’t tell Jon, was answered by Sansa. “No one came save me. No one can save anyone”.

      Not to mention she told Jon to wait until they had more men but instead of asking Sansa from where–he still didn’t head or respect her advice and ask her for input. He just said we can’t get more men. She’s sick of people not taking her seriously and she’s willing to show them instead of tell them.

      Sansa not telling anyone was a statement.

      • therealeverton says:

        Actually Jon was very clear about where more men would come from. He also stated they had begged for men from all possible sources and there were no more to be had, she chose not to correct him.

        I’m not saying that’s good or bad, but he did “ask”.

  42. md says:

    Zig Zag you silly twit !!!

  43. Gordon Culp jr. says:

    I thought Jon was rash as well but I don’t despise him as much as a dyed redhead tv critic named Maureen who is too stupid to understand what Donald Trump is saying on the political scene.

  44. Grey Wolf says:

    Does unapologetically bashing Trump and promoting Feminism guarantee favor to your argument on its face value rather than the merits? This is fantasy and it seems like your agenda and lack of imagination prevent you from any vision in regards to the direction of the show. Never Snow? I’m assuming you’d prefer Danny or Sansa-both who are responsible for the senseless slaughter of thousands. Rather than the only major character that has maintained a consistent pattern of honor and humility throughout all 6 seasons? R+L=J? Jon is the Prince that was Promised. He is of Ice and Fire. Danny is only of fire, and wants to conquer for the sake of conquering. Jon doesn’t want this? He is compelled by honor to fight. Jon won’t sit on the iron throne in the end (this show will end with all the great house meeting their demise), but Jon will be the last man standing, Danny will be a close second…at best.

  45. Me says:

    I’m sorry but, what?

    Sansa would have never ever been able to get that many people to follow her to even have an army. The only reason she got the Knights of the Vale is because Little Finger is in love with her or whatever, not because she’s some great leader.

    The bulk of the forces were made up of Wildlings that Jon Snow secured. He’s the only one that actually wants to fight the Long Night, who actually has their head on straight about where the real threat is. If anyone else is in charge, they’ll all end up as whitewalker lunch.

    Sansa gave him no context, no history, nothing behind her “advice.” She didn’t even tell Jon that the Vale army was available. If she’d had told them, they could have waited until Littlefinger responded, and then took Ramsey’s flank right away instead of waiting until the whole army was slaughtered.

    What exactly was Jon going to do when Rickon started running? NOT go after him? Just let Ramsey shoot him? And then after he was out there, if he’d gone back, he would have gotten a face full of arrows. Not only that, but this is his first full-scale battle as commander, against a psychopath who wrecked Stannis, a seasoned commander, and Jon has only half the men. He would have had enough if Sansa bothered to tell him about Littlefinger’s offer.

    Also, what does this battle have to do with ruling an empire? The whole point of Dany’s storyline is that being a commander, a conqueror and a ruler are not the same thing.

  46. Talia12 says:

    Jon Snow is my favorite character, but I don’t like the way he is being written since he was resurrected..He is being written as a dummy and he’s never been a dummy in the past, he’s always been pretty wise and has had lots of foresight and was a reluctant, but natural leader. I don’t know why the writers are choosing to write him this way – I hate it (all the female characters are being written as the smart ones), …Bring back the old Jon Snow

  47. LaceyB says:

    Jon Snow isn’t a King . . . He is the Mesiah.

    Jon isn’t built to battle or rule humans . . . he is going to save the world. #winteriscoming

    • Randall says:

      Perfectly put.

      You don’t need a crown to be a hero / savior. And having a crown doesn’t necessarily mean you are one either.

      The whole show is about how insignificant the “game of thrones” actually is. So why would anyone feel that the prince that was promised would be destined to rule the 7 kingdoms is beyond me.

      He’s destined to save the people.

  48. Tessa says:

    This pissed me off don’t watch the show then

  49. Nanny Mo says:

    I enjoyed it. Ep 7 and 8 were kinda bad so I was worried, but this was pretty good. You can tell that they are running out of George RRRRRs original written material and moving into the parts he hasn’t written yet. The dialogue is way less witty and it’s getting a little event driven, BUT I enjoyed last night anyway. I hope George jumps in and fleshes moments out. We need some new Tyrion-isms and fast.

  50. goatsandmonkeys says:

    Last night was the first and only show that I could watch from start to finish.
    Usually, I doze off after the first 15 minutes of meandering, dead dialog.

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